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Offline Bjolfr

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Amon
« on: December 23, 2012, 08:33:12 PM »
Let's talk about this awesome dude.



I love how Amon's story played out, don't get me wrong - but I think it would've been far more creative if they had stuck to him being a non-bender. The idea that a non-bender could be so powerful is actually frightening to benders and changes the status quo of the Avatar universe. Kinda disappointing that they had to go the other way.

Could and would Amon take away his own bending? Was Amon a self-hating bender, or just power hungry?

Discuss.

Offline Blu

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Re: Amon
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2012, 11:18:19 AM »
I love how Amon's story played out, don't get me wrong - but I think it would've been far more creative if they had stuck to him being a non-bender. The idea that a non-bender could be so powerful is actually frightening to benders and changes the status quo of the Avatar universe. Kinda disappointing that they had to go the other way.

Pretty much my thoughts. I don't have any real problem with what they did, other than the fact that what they established already was so much better.

Although I find it pretty problematic that the final back story didn't actually explain his motivations any better than the 'fake' back story.

Even with reservations about his eventual reveal I would comfortably call Amon the best villain in Avatar by a long shot. Azula's a great character but Amon has a real iconic quality and presence that no villain had in ATLA.

Offline LadyKatara

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Re: Amon
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2012, 03:15:08 PM »
I'm not sure who I like better, Azula or Amon.

Azula is a prodigy, perfectionist, cool, and confident. [Until the end]

But Amon is downright scary.

What do you guys think?


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Offline EnshroudingDarkness

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Re: Amon
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2012, 09:10:51 PM »
Quote (selected)
I love how Amon's story played out, don't get me wrong - but I think it would've been far more creative if they had stuck to him being a non-bender. The idea that a non-bender could be so powerful is actually frightening to benders and changes the status quo of the Avatar universe. Kinda disappointing that they had to go the other way.

My thoughts exactly. It would have been much better if he actually where a non-bender, who managed to get in contact with the spirits. And i actually believed that until the scene with Tarrlok in prison. Seriously, was there no other way to explain the truth about Amon? The whole time you have no idea who he could be, and then they throw all this information right into your face. It was okay but feels strange for some reason.

And here another thing which i said before in some thread:

Quote (selected)
To be honest, maybe Amon is not even dead. He got shot right in the freaking face with a lightning bolt, and got back on his feet a few seconds later like nothing happend (Zuko barely survived one from Azula, and he tried to channel it through his body. And Aang would have been dead if Katara did not heal him)

Any idea how he survived that lightning bolt from Mako without even breaking a sweat?



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Offline Av

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Re: Amon
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2012, 01:42:41 AM »
I was of the opinion that, seeing as more benders can use lightning, it's not as powerful as it used to be.

It used to be that only masters could use lightning, now the average joe who works at a power plant can do it. It makes sense that lightning made by the average person wouldn't be as strong as lightning from a master like Iroh or Ozai.

... Also, even if not, Mako wasn't in top form. Physically and in terms of position. He was crouched over on his knees and the only thing remotely resembling a lightning-bending stance was the position of his fingers.
<< Post Merge: December 25, 2012, 02:07:10 AM >>


Specifically on Amon, he was a great villain.

... I... I have this weird feeling about Noatak.

I don't know why, but I view him sympathetically and assume he had good intentions.

I think Noatak saw what bending did to his father, what bloodbending did to a person and can be used to do to other people and decided that no one should be able to do it. I think he saw bending as the root of arrogance and superiority complexes, and decided that it should be rid of. He saw his brother rise in power and abuse the system, and he wanted to rise up and take it down.

This is where Amon gets interesting for me. As soon as he's unmasked, as soon as he loses, he gets a fresh look at himself. The world knows his real face. He can't hide behind a mask of anonymity anymore, he isn't a faceless figure with a legion of followers, he is now once again nothing but a man... And he sees that he really f***ed up.

He sees that he wasn't in the right. He was using his bending to do exactly what he set out to prevent, under the guise of the greater good. "It's okay when I do it, because I'm doing it for the right cause." He justified it. That's how people work. It's okay when the person who's right does something bad. Now he sees that isn't true, that he still did a bunch of terrible things and can't get away with it.

He runs to his brother because he finally sees that, in the end, HE'S NO BETTER THAN HIM. It's over. His self-delusion has faded, his gambit blew up in his face and he can't hide anymore. He can't justify himself anymore. The cause he was fighting for, as soon as he was outed, appeared to fall apart instantly. To me, this isn't a sign of how weak it was to begin with, it's a sign that the person leading it was a liar and thus the Revolution, the movement, was empty and shallow and collapsed. It was run under false pretenses and the collapse of Noatak's dream is entirely on his own shoulders. When faced with your mot ardent supporters abandoning you, you are left with nothing to blame, no one to look at, but yourself.

He ran to free his brother because they both were manipulated in different ways by their father, into believing two completely different things, but underneath it all utilize the same techniques and attitudes to accomplish their goals. Noatak did it underground and Tarrlok did it from the top-down, but their methods (lying, bargaining, choosing acceptable targets and using the frog-in-a-slow-burning-pot principle to ease into their more drastic acts) are similar. Neither is superior to the other, they are both battered spirits who have been defeated and have no one else who understands but one another.

Together, they don't have to just blame themselves. They can both come together and blame their father. They have no one else to fall back on.

... But they know how they are. They know what they'll do if given the option. They can't start anew. They have to die, their techniques die with them, and prevent this from happening in the future. 

Noatak was delusional, viewing himself almost like a god. Then, he rediscovered that he was just a man. The problem is that, to viewers, this makes him less of a presence. But to a story, this makes him a real character, and it shows how most leaders and egomaniacs really operate and just how quickly things falter when you look behind the mask.

Amon is one of the greatest villains I've ever seen. I wish we could see more of him.

Noatak is one of the more intriguing antagonists I've ever seen. I want to know more about him.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 02:11:35 AM by Av »
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Offline Nightcrawler

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Re: Amon
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 01:22:22 AM »
Amon is the scariest villain of the Avatar-verse so far. He's far more intimidating than Azula or Ozai ever were. In a way, Amon could have been power hungry. He's trying to take everyone's bending away. If he managed to take every single last person's bending away, he'd be left the last bender. Therefore he would then have power over everyone else. He could be a self hating bender, but I honestly can't find a reason as too why he would be... Unless it was because of Aang taking Yakone's bending away, and he wanted to take everyone else's bending away to annoy  and anger the spirits.


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Offline A6

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Re: Amon
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2012, 02:37:41 PM »
Amon was a great villian, had me shaking at times as much as the benders he had intimidated, including Korra and Tenzin.

I had long believed his power derived from the ambivalent or evil spirit Koh, with whom I thought Amon to be in collaboration with to be granted such power.  Scarier still that it turned out to be an extreme form of blood bending.  Interesting that we are going see a spirit world enemy in Season 2.

And as Av has so eloquently noted, Amon was one of the greatest deceivers of all time.

I contend that he was not repentent of what he did, but was simply discovered for the con he was, and like his brother was looking for another way to fool people and take power and revenge when Tarrlok threatened Korra in the basement of the cabin after being discovered for the blood bender he was.  That final trip on the boat was not a cute little family gathering, nor intended to be their joint demise, but was Noatak's way of going into seclusion - again, but this time with his brother - to regroup and survive for another day and plot together this time for another set of folks to dupe.

I have yet to see in my long life one power seeking dominating real life despot lay down their power and take up tiddywinks after being defeated by greater power.  They just found another way to return - or try to return - to their brutal ways. Noatak and Tarrlok were no different.  Their dad taught them too well and they didn't learn anything from their gentle but completely naive mother who had to be in complete denial.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 02:43:33 PM by A6 »
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Offline Fourtune

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Re: Amon
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2013, 09:15:51 AM »
I have yet to see in my long life one power seeking dominating real life despot lay down their power and take up tiddywinks after being defeated by greater power.  They just found another way to return - or try to return - to their brutal ways. Noatak and Tarrlok were no different.

Then again, I say this actually lends credence to the idea that their escape could've been intended at least subconsciously to be that joint demise. As a matter of fact it could've been the reason for a double suicide by boat ride. Av's assessment pretty much says so right here:

... But they know how they are. They know what they'll do if given the option. They can't start anew. They have to die, their techniques die with them, and prevent this from happening in the future. 

I know Tarrlok certainly doesn't disagree. Is it that big a stretch to think Noatak would've thought the same, or at least that he gave control of his own fate to his brother to decide for a reason?
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Offline Guyw1tn0nam3

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Re: Amon
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2013, 07:17:02 PM »
Azula's easily the better villain. There's really no competition because when you compare their achievements and circumstances, Azula's path to success is so much more difficult and as a result her fall is much more tragic.

Amon's problem is he's "scary", but when you realize his victory over Republic City was a function of inadequacy and political intransigence, it limits how much you can praise any of his accolades.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 07:18:36 PM by Guyw1tn0nam3 »

Offline bombalurima

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Re: Amon
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2013, 10:13:35 PM »
Azula's easily the better villain. There's really no competition because when you compare their achievements and circumstances, Azula's path to success is so much more difficult and as a result her fall is much more tragic.

Amon's problem is he's "scary", but when you realize his victory over Republic City was a function of inadequacy and political intransigence, it limits how much you can praise any of his accolades.

Pretty much my thoughts, just worded far more eloquently. XDX

I think Amon's more interesting than Ozai is, but I still wasn't all that interested in him or any of his shenanigans beyond the kind of trouble it meant for Korra and Republic City. I like the connection between him and Tarrlok--that's certainly not something I saw coming. But to me, him being a bender in the end and using those skills to further advance his cause of...wiping out other benders, just made that entire plot fall flat on its face. He's not a poorly written character, but nothing on Azula's level, imo.
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Offline Blu

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Re: Amon
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2013, 11:59:03 PM »
Azula's easily the better villain. There's really no competition because when you compare their achievements and circumstances, Azula's path to success is so much more difficult and as a result her fall is much more tragic.

That could possibly make her a better character, but when it comes to villains I value presence over most things.

Offline Guyw1tn0nam3

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Re: Amon
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2013, 12:06:29 AM »
Azula's easily the better villain. There's really no competition because when you compare their achievements and circumstances, Azula's path to success is so much more difficult and as a result her fall is much more tragic.

That could possibly make her a better character, but when it comes to villains I value presence over most things.

Eh, but I didn't feel like he had presence.

Offline Blu

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Re: Amon
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2013, 12:09:20 AM »
Azula's easily the better villain. There's really no competition because when you compare their achievements and circumstances, Azula's path to success is so much more difficult and as a result her fall is much more tragic.

That could possibly make her a better character, but when it comes to villains I value presence over most things.

Eh, but I didn't feel like he had presence.

Seriously?

Offline Guyw1tn0nam3

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Re: Amon
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2013, 12:27:15 AM »
Azula's easily the better villain. There's really no competition because when you compare their achievements and circumstances, Azula's path to success is so much more difficult and as a result her fall is much more tragic.

That could possibly make her a better character, but when it comes to villains I value presence over most things.

Eh, but I didn't feel like he had presence.

Seriously?

Yes. Because I think when you realize that his "presence" and "strength" comes from the fact that he has a lot of plot armor and his opponents just don't have the tactical guile and strategic mind that he does, it's almost like it's just watching a professional tennis player toying with an amateur like me.

Offline Blu

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Re: Amon
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2013, 12:30:01 AM »
Azula's easily the better villain. There's really no competition because when you compare their achievements and circumstances, Azula's path to success is so much more difficult and as a result her fall is much more tragic.

That could possibly make her a better character, but when it comes to villains I value presence over most things.

Eh, but I didn't feel like he had presence.

Seriously?

Yes. Because I think when you realize that his "presence" and "strength" comes from the fact that he has a lot of plot armor and his opponents just don't have the tactical guile and strategic mind that he does, it's almost like it's just watching a professional tennis player toying with an amateur like me.

No its not. He toys with the Avatar man.

And I hate the term 'plot armour'.

Offline Guyw1tn0nam3

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Re: Amon
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2013, 12:39:18 AM »
Azula's easily the better villain. There's really no competition because when you compare their achievements and circumstances, Azula's path to success is so much more difficult and as a result her fall is much more tragic.

That could possibly make her a better character, but when it comes to villains I value presence over most things.

Eh, but I didn't feel like he had presence.

Seriously?

Yes. Because I think when you realize that his "presence" and "strength" comes from the fact that he has a lot of plot armor and his opponents just don't have the tactical guile and strategic mind that he does, it's almost like it's just watching a professional tennis player toying with an amateur like me.

No its not. He toys with the Avatar man.

And I hate the term 'plot armour'.

I'd say Azula easily has more presence than Amon. Amon can project himself as a villain because he's large and intimidating, but Azula can do the same despite her small stature and lack of overpowered abilities and resources at her command. *shrug*

Offline Blu

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Re: Amon
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2013, 12:40:44 AM »
Azula's easily the better villain. There's really no competition because when you compare their achievements and circumstances, Azula's path to success is so much more difficult and as a result her fall is much more tragic.

That could possibly make her a better character, but when it comes to villains I value presence over most things.

Eh, but I didn't feel like he had presence.

Seriously?

Yes. Because I think when you realize that his "presence" and "strength" comes from the fact that he has a lot of plot armor and his opponents just don't have the tactical guile and strategic mind that he does, it's almost like it's just watching a professional tennis player toying with an amateur like me.

No its not. He toys with the Avatar man.

And I hate the term 'plot armour'.

I'd say Azula easily has more presence than Amon. Amon can project himself as a villain because he's large and intimidating, but Azula can do the same despite her small stature and lack of overpowered abilities and resources at her command. *shrug*

Its not just about that though. Because I don't think Zhao or Ozai had 'presence' as such.

Offline Guyw1tn0nam3

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Re: Amon
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2013, 01:09:33 AM »
Azula's easily the better villain. There's really no competition because when you compare their achievements and circumstances, Azula's path to success is so much more difficult and as a result her fall is much more tragic.

That could possibly make her a better character, but when it comes to villains I value presence over most things.

Eh, but I didn't feel like he had presence.

Seriously?

Yes. Because I think when you realize that his "presence" and "strength" comes from the fact that he has a lot of plot armor and his opponents just don't have the tactical guile and strategic mind that he does, it's almost like it's just watching a professional tennis player toying with an amateur like me.

No its not. He toys with the Avatar man.

And I hate the term 'plot armour'.

I'd say Azula easily has more presence than Amon. Amon can project himself as a villain because he's large and intimidating, but Azula can do the same despite her small stature and lack of overpowered abilities and resources at her command. *shrug*

Its not just about that though. Because I don't think Zhao or Ozai had 'presence' as such.

Oh for sure. If I compared Ozai or Zhao to Amon, there'd be no competition. Amon wins hands down. I just think that presence wise, the sinister smile of Azula gives far more of an intimidating presence than Amon. Maybe that's because I've been through the whole "mask" routine and its effect has worn off (not to mention the mask itself wasn't very intimidating given the character on its surface), but overall Azula's ability to stand out in a room was much more potent than Amon's.

Offline Blu

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Re: Amon
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2013, 01:34:41 AM »
You mean you went through a phase of wearing a mask yourself? How did that go?

Offline Guyw1tn0nam3

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Re: Amon
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2013, 08:07:23 AM »
You mean you went through a phase of wearing a mask yourself? How did that go?

Hahaha. No. :D

More like I've seen enough shows/movies/books where people tried to be intimidating with masks and it didn't work out so well. -3-

 

       
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